User:Chris 73/Archive 002

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This is an archive of my Talk page. Do not edit this page! Please leave new messages on my Talk page.

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Thanks!

Thanks for answering my question on the village pump. (The one about the new pages patrol and 'Did You Know'). MGM 08:13, May 16, 2004 (UTC)

Suggested guidelines on Kosovo usage

Rather than you and Nikola getting into a revert war, could you first look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kosovo#Suggested_guidelines_on_usage and give some feedback? Thanks in advance. -- ChrisO 10:49, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Chris 73 on TV (not)

I was watching TV last night right before going to bed (Crossing Jordan) and one of the characters was named Chris Ryder. As I was falling asleep and drifting in and out of dreamland, I kept thinking Chris Ryder was Chris 73. Just thought I'd share that with ya. - UtherSRG 13:39, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

You can now increase your wikipedia score by 5 ;-)

(see [1]) -- Chris 73 | Talk 00:23, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Requested pictures fulfillment

Man, you're going to town on that requested list! Good job. Searching for photos in public domain is quite a bit of work--but then so is setting up your own photos. Thanks. The braided river is particularly nice. I'm amused that the gov't doesn't know the difference between a sickle and a scythe--too bad the labels are embedded in the picture. If I have a chance, I might remove the labels. Elf | Talk 15:49, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Kosovo, again ...

Hi Dori. Whats your view on the Kosovo vs. Kosovo and Metohija situation? Was the vote valid? I still think it was valid, but I am willing to vote again if you feel the need for it. Also, Nicola is using the - in my opinion - narrowest possible interpretation that only the page location of Kosovo was decided, and everything else is still K&M. Even in historic references he calls it the territory of modern Kosovo and Metohija. I won't revert Nikola for now, but would like to hear your opinion. (I also asked ChrisO for his view) Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:18, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Of course I think the vote was valid. It was well advertised and overwhelming in one direction. I assure you that if it had gone the other way, we wouldn't be hearing this from Nikola. I like the suggestions ChrisO made at the bottom of Talk:Kosovo. Also, one could link like this [[Kosovo|Kosovo and Metohija]] in cases where the it's deemed necessary (i.e. where people would expect that name, which I think are few). Dori | Talk 13:39, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

It is quite logical that I would not complain about a vote that does nothing. Nikola 06:25, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

I also think the vote was is valid. Your suggestion sounds sensible. Of course, in cases where the it's deemed necessary is open to interpretation, but I also think there are few cases. About the suggestion in Talk:Kosovo, I see the towns located more in the geographic region than in the administrative region, as there is pretty much no actual serbian administration in Kosovo. I.e. Pristina is located in Kosovo rather than Pristina is located in Kosovo and Metohija. For me, Kosovo and Metohija makes sense only when it is related to the serbian administration, i.e. Racak, Political divisions of Serbia and Montenegro, or List of geographical pairs, and then I would link [[Kosovo|Kosovo and Metohija]]. But, it seems such links are not liked by Nikola [2], and even historic references are forced on a modern context [3] (213.244.194.247 = Nikola). I am willing to revert his edits, but I want to make sure first that i act with the majority of the Wikipedians. -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:24, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Reverting is considered harmful to Wikipedia (as well as a time waste), but then again I don't know how else one would deal with Nikola short of arbitration. He's not willing to accept the community decision. Dori | Talk 15:56, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

Stop with that slander, will you? When and how did the community decided that list of geographical pairs should link to Kosovo? Nikola 06:25, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

The List of geographical pairs linked to Kosovo and Metohia, which is a redirect for Kosovo. I merely replaced the link from *[[Kosovo and Metohia|Kosovo & Metohia]] to *[[Kosovo|Kosovo & Metohia]] . The displayed text has not changed, nor has the page the link finally ends (i.e. Kosovo), it merely does not go through a redirect. Regarding Kosovo (province) and Kosovo (region): Where on Talk:Kosovo does it say that they differ? I found only "We are NOT dealing with different geographic borders for the territory, and different political (administrative) borders". BTW, i consider the vote valid, and also applicable to most articles related to the province in Wikipedia. -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:39, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

I believe that any reader would be puzzled at least to why K&M links to K and not M. The questions remains, of course, why did you bother to do it. Nikola

"First, a bit of background: Kosovo is both an administrative entity and a geographical region. The term we use depends on the context." Nikola 07:53, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Bowler Hat

I don't think we can use the picture at http://www.masters-of-photography.com/S/strand/strand_bowler_hat_full.html. The image is a scan of a photograph which is not in the public domain. The copyright for the scan resides with http://www.masters-of-photography.com and their T&C doesn't not allow the image to be distributed to third parties as per the GNU FDL. Mintguy (T) 14:56, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

According to the caption, the photo was taken in 1916. All copyrights before 1923 have expired, so the original photo copyrights have expired. The scan was probably taken in modern times, but I read somewhere that Wikipedia considers scans of copyright free 2D work also to be copyright free. I am not a deep expert in this topic, but there are also tons of other pictures on wikipedia with a simillar status. Did this answer your question, or did I miss some legal stuff? -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:24, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

A Solution for Kosovo?

To solve this problem, shall we organize a vote about when to use Kosovo and when Kosovo and Metohija? You make proposal A and list your arguments for it, I make proposal B and list the arguments for it, we discuss about it, and then have a proper vote. Just an idea. -- Chris 73 | Talk 09:01, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure. Was there ever a vote on such an issue? Nikola 10:52, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

What would you suggest to solve our differences? -- Chris 73 | Talk 11:01, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

First and foremost, I would suggest to wait a day or two and see if there are any comments on them. Nikola 11:12, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. I will be away from home and offline from Saturday till Wednesday, so I suggest we wait till wednesday. I will refrain from reverting till then, and hope you do, too. I also added a brief note on Wikipedia: Requests for page protection and Wikipedia:Requests for review of administrative actions, hope this is OK with you -- Chris 73 | Talk 11:38, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

I've tried to come up with a compromise formula. This notes the geographical position of the town (in Kosovo) and its administrative locality (in Kosovo and Metohija) with the caveat that governance is currently exercised by the UN. You can see an example of this at Djakovica (diff). What do the two of you think? -- ChrisO 13:44, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

That looks acceptable to me. A bit long maybe, but useful for towns and places. Not sure how to adapt this for example to Kosovo Liberation Army or Kosovo War, but it would be a start. Thank you for the suggestion, I guess Nikola and I got a bit too enthusiastic. -- Chris 73 | Talk 14:06, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

I don't see why this is a compromise. First of all, Djakovica is in Metohia. It is some 60 km away from Kosovo. Saying that it is in Kosovo is ambiguous at best. Then, saying that it is in Kosovo, Serbia and Montenegro is misleading; the province is an administrative unit of Serbia, not of Serbia and Montenegro. Additional sentence is plain wrong. The city is nominally and factually governed as part of the Serbian autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija BY the United Nations. The fact that the UN govern a province of Serbia doesn't mean that it is not a province of Serbia.

I think I'll try a novel approach: Chris 73, why do you think that these articles should link to Kosovo and not to Kosovo and Metohija? Nikola 05:18, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

First of all, naming this province is difficult, since there are a lot of different names in use. K&M is probably disliked by Albanians, (Republic of ) Kosova is probably equally disliked by Serbs. This brings up a whole new can of worms about who the province belongs to. Legally, its Serbia. Practically, its independent under UN control. Only future will tell where the place ends up. Meanwhile, the rest of the world seems to be using the name Kosovo (for google counts etc. see Talk:Kosovo). This also seems to be a logical compromise to me, being somewhere between Kosova and K&M. Note for clarification: when I refer to Kosovo, I mean the entire region, not the smaller part within the region I think you call Kosovo.

On Wikipedia, there seems to be consensus to use the most common English name for places, but I am sure there are also lots of exceptions. Based on the vote on Talk:Kosovo, it seems a majority of the Wikipedians prefer to use Kosovo, and I think this preference is not limited to the location of the article alone. For me, Wikipedia majority is what counts. Ask yourself, if there would be a vote about the name usage, what would you expect the answer to be? Of course, there are valid exceptions for using K&M, for example List of geographical pairs, Political divisions of Serbia and Montenegro, or Project Rastko to name a few. And, it should definitely be listed at the top of Kosovo. A mentioning of both names as suggested by ChrisO or similar is also possible.

Ok, your turn. Why do you think these articles should link to Kosovo and Metohija and not to Kosovo? -- Chris 73 | Talk 05:48, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

(Note: Please answer underneath of my answer, and do not write your answer/rebuttal within the lines of my text. This makes it very difficult for me to answer your answer, and very hard to read for everybody else. Thanks. BTW, did you like the fireman?)

OK.

Answering to your first point, I want to say that, as there are more Serbs then Albanians living on this planet, I think that, all other things being equal, it is better to have what is insultive for Albanians than what is insultive for Serbs.

Having said that, I can assure you that calling the province "Kosovo" is not insultive to Serbs. Google search for "Kosovo i Metohija" in Serbian returns 13,000 pages while search for "Kosovo" in Serbian returns 70,900 pages, so it is mentioned four times as much. But what is insultive is calling the province "Kosovo" officially.

Who cares if in the middle of a three-foot-long article someone writes "Kosovo"? I don't, and I don't think that many people do. On the other hand, if there is such a mention of the province in an article definition, I do care. If an article says that "X is a city in Kosovo, a province of Serbia", I would be quite right to stamp that article with {{disputed}}, citing that neither the Constitution of Serbia nor the Constitutional Charter of Serbia and Montenegro mention existence of such a province. A province of Serbia called "Kosovo" simply does not exist.

You are wrong when you say that the province is independent uner UN control. The province is autonomous under UN control. Actually, it has less autonomy under UN then it had under Serbia, at least formally.

I remain unconvinced that Kosovo is English for Kosovo and Metohia; Kosovo is English for Kosovo. Situation here is not like Kiev/Kyiv, where a government wants to prescribe new spelling of an existing name; the name remained the same, and English language speakers have every right to choose which spelling they will use in their language. Situation is more similar to Burma/Myanmar where a government changed the name, and rightfully expects everyone to follow that change; Burma remains English for Burma but Myanmar is English for Myanmar (I don't know how are they called in original but you'll understand the point). The fact that old name is a part of the new name is not important.

To answer your question directly, I think that Kosovo and Metohija is both unambiguous and correct. As I said, if in a middle of some article it is mentioned as a sideline that something happened in "Kosovo", that's fine. But if in a definition of a town or something similar it is said that it is in "Kosovo", that's not to good.

To finish with a question I asked Kosovar: if the parliament of Serbia would tomorrow, or later today, renamed the province to "Abvgd", should the article be moved to Abvgd and all (except historical) references be changed to Abvgd?

Fireman is nice. If I had a digital camera, I'd send send a photo of me with an axe... ;) Nikola 14:02, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I am glad that Kosovo is not insulting to Serbs. One problem less. Regarding autonomous vs. independent: According to my dictionary they are synonyms. Either usage is fine by me, and I don't know if there are any legal differences. I unfortunately disagree with "Kosovo and Metohija" being unambiguous. I know more about it now, but when I first heard Kosovo and Metohija, I got confused because I knew only a place called Kosovo, had never heard of Metohija, and was wondering what other region Metohija was. To English speakers, Kosovo is a clear reference to the region, as Kosovo is used almost exclusively in the English language to refer to both the region and the province. A possible compromise would be to say e.g. Prizren is in Kosovo, which is legally the Serbian province Kosovo and Metohija, but practically an autonomous region under UN control. It is a long phrase, but it contains both the information you want and the English reference to Kosovo. Would this be acceptable to you? I also think that K&M needs to be mentioned only once per article, and later use the short form Kosovo. About the province Abvgd: The parliament of Serbia can name it anything they want, and it will be properly mentioned at the top of the Kosovo article. But as long as the place is better known as Kosovo, then it should be called Kosovo within Wikipedia. The statement that "Prizren is in Abvgd" would be more confusing than helpful, I think. Also another minor point, I don't see the need to link to a redirect [[Kosovo and Metohija]], if [[Kosovo|Kosovo and Metohija]] achieves the same results, as for example on List of geographical pairs.

Could you consider discussing this problem on Talk:Kosovo, so others can participate in the discussion? I know you didn't like some of the discussions there, but I think my talk page is the wrong place to sort this out. I will post a copy of my suggestions on Talk:Kosovo

Glad you liked the fireman. A photo of you with an axe is fine, as long as it is only a photo, and not the real thing ;-) -- Chris 73 | Talk 01:16, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Just to clarify: calling province "Kosovo" in a casual conversation is not insultive. But even vaguely implying that it is its real name is.

Difference between autonomy and independence is huge, and I believe you shouldn't trust that dictionary in the future. Serbia is independent. Any law passed by the Parliament of Serbia becomes active the moment it is passed and remains active until (eventually) it is deemed unconstitutional by the Constitutional Court of Serbia, which is in turn elected by a previous parliament. Kosovo is just autonomous. Any law passed by the Parliament of Kosovo and Metohia (notice the difference?) becomes active only when it is approved by the Parliament of Serbia or, in these days, by UNMIK. That is not the only difference, but I think that now you understand how different these terms are.

Your proposed solution is, again, incorrect. Kosovo is both legally and practically Serbian province Kosovo and Metohija, and an autonomous region under UN control.

I don't dispute the fact that most English-speaking people don't know what is full name of the province; but this wouldn't be the first time that Wikipedia is smarter then the world. But I am thinking about this solution: Prizren is a city in the Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija (Kosovo). Shorter then your version, leaves out any implication of province's legal status, wouldn't confuse you if you encountered it (I hope). To avoid any special treatment later in articles the province could almost always be referred to as "the province".

There are several reasons why I think that links to redirects should be kept linking to redirects. As I said, I think that a link to B simply confuses people. Another reason is visibility on search engines. For example, if all links to [[Milutin Milankovitch|Milutin Milanković]] would be replaced with [[Milutin Milantkovic|Milutin Milanković]], former would have no hits at all on Google search for "Milutin Milankovitch" (because article URL is taken into account). If all links which mention Kosovo and Metohija would point to just Kosovo, Wikipedia would be much lower when someon is searching for "Kosovo and Metohija". I believe that the easyest way to maintain indexability of all terms is to let users to enter any of them at will and not to change one version to another where there isn't some special need to do so.

As for Talk:Kosovo, as I said, it insults me to have to write on that page. You can copy/paste my conversation there if you would like, but I won't talk there.

I can't upload the real thing. One day, when axes make it to MIME, maybe... Nikola 08:39, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Seems we're getting closer to a solution. How about Prizren is a city in Kosovo (Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija). ? About the links to a redirect: I don't see why Wikipedia should optimize the google results for Kosovo and metohia. In any case, Wikipedia is the fourth google result for "Kosovo and metohia" after three serbian sites. -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:02, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

This seems to suggest that Kosovo is not a province of Serbia and that two are not the same. By the way, what do you think about DrBug's suggestion to include geographical regions? Nikola 04:13, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

I see no reason why Wikipedia should optimize the Google results for anything. No version should be preferred and the easiest way to ensure that all versions are present would be to leave things the way they are. If someone who doesn't know about this discussion in a new article writes [[Kosovo|Kosovo and Metohia]], I'd leave it. This is why I wasn't changing Kosovo-Metohia to Kosovo and Metohia or Metohia to Metohija and so on. Nikola 04:13, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

You mean: Prizren is a city in Metohija, Kosovo and Metohija (Kosovo for short), Serbia or Pristina is a city in Kosovo, Kosovo and Metohija (Kosovo for short), Serbia)? This is quite long and akward. I still prefer the use of Kosovo only, and have the official name on the page Kosovo. Its short, everybody understands, and the full credit is given to all the name variations on Kosovo. I guess we may need a vote or quickpoll to sort this out. -- Chris 73 | Talk 03:27, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes. In the second case, it might be "Pristina is a city in Kosovo, Kosovo and Metohija (Kosovo for short), Serbia", but yes. It is quite long, but consider "Luxembourg is a city in the Luxembourg district of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg"; such cases might happen and are sometimes inevitable (note that such a solution is inapplicable here as the moment you say "Autonomous province of" you are stating an official name and you know very well what is the official name). But if you think that regions should not be included, it's OK. I still prefer the use of Kosovo and Metohia only but am willing to accept a compromise. Kosovo is short and everybody understands it, but it is ambigious, incorrect and might be insultive. Regarding the vote, I don't think that there has ever been a vote which attempted to decide the content of all articles on Wikipedia, even articles that have not yet been written, and I am not sure that such a vote would be acceptable. Further, I don't see that anybody has joined our discussion except DrBug, which means that either nobody knows about the issue, or that nobody cares. This is a complex issue and I can't accept that people who don't know about it decide about it (which is one more reason why the previous vote was invalid; of ten voters perhaps eight have edited any Kosovo-related article prior to the voting). Whether Kiev or Kyiv is preferred English variant any speaker of English language can decide. Whether official or unofficial name should be used to refer to this province is something which only someone who knows about issues around the name can decide. Nikola 08:13, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OK, point by point: Where did you get the Luxembourg example from? It was not on the Luxembourg page, and i would consider it excessive elsewhere in most cases. Kosovo is short and everybody understands it, but it is ambigious contradicts itself. I also don't think Kosovo is insultive, after all you had no problems with e.g. Prizren being in Kosovo until the vote on Talk:Kosovo started, so the insult can't be that big. All alternative names are listed on Kosovo anyway. I also think a vote would be quite possible, there are lots of votes that set guidelines for Wikipedia. BTW it is not required to edit an article in order to vote on it. About the official name: If the BBC, the CIA, the UN, the EU, and pretty much everybody else outside of Serbia calls it Kosovo then that is fine for me. You also stated that even in Serbian, Kosovo is more common than K&M. However, I would go with the wikipedia majority anytime, we just have to find out what the majority thinks. -- Chris 73 | Talk 11:19, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I constructed that example just to show that such cases might arise; Luxembourg is defined as "Luxembourg City, population 82,268 (2002), is the capital of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg." I should have said "everybody thinks to understand it"; most people don't know that it is ambiguous but that doesn't make it unambiguous. Those who know that Prizren is in Metohia will notice the error. I have explained nicely when Kosovo is insultive and when it isn't. I don't know why I haven't changed that in Prizren article, after all even unrelated to this it implies that Kosovo is an administrative unit of Serbia and Montenegro. This is not about a guideline, this is about contents of articles; if you say "Kiev is the capital of Ukraine" or "Kyiv is the capital of Ukraine", or perhaps "Red is a color" or "Red is a colour", these are two same thing expressed in a different way. If you say that "Prizren is a city in Kosovo" it means something completely different then "Prizren is a city in Kosovo and Metohia". It is not required to edit in order to vote, but if a vote is determining contents of an article, I expect the voters to know about the topic they vote about; maybe some of the voters did know enough, but haven't edited the article, but I doubt that. For Prizren, probably I didn't thought it is so important; now I do. Anyway, to make long story short, if such a vote would be held, and if it would go in your favour, I would stamp all of the pages with {{disputed}}; Kosovo, the province, simply does not exist. It is fine for me too that the BBC, the CIA, the UN, the EU, and pretty much everybody else outside of Serbia calls the province Kosovo; they may continue to do so, but I will never fail to point out that they are wrong. I said that Kosovo is used more frequently as an informal name. By the way, you have still failed to explain me why numerous pages with "Bombai", "Kyiv" or "Mecca" don't bother you but these few pages do? Nikola 13:19, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think that I have a solution: "X is a city in the province of Serbia called Kosovo (officialy Kosovo and Metohia). Though it isn't real name of the province, noone can argue that it is called that way. If this fails, I don't really know what to do. Nikola 07:45, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Looks like we're getting close again. Hopefully this time we'll find a solution. Basically, the above suggestion would be acceptable for me, but would this small modification also be possible for you: "X is a city in the Serbian province of Kosovo (officialy Kosovo and Metohia)"? -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:15, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It implies that there is such a province ;) Will be off WP for a few days... Nikola 04:40, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"province of Serbia called Kosovo (officialy Kosovo and Metohia)", "autonomous province of Serbia called Kosovo (officialy Kosovo and Metohia) are both fine with me. Nikola 17:13, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Awards for WP

Please see m:Trophy box; I see that you were writing recently about wanting such a page! We have surely won more small top-ten and top-reference awards; please add any you've seen, or any juicy quotes you remember fondly from our press coverage. +sj+ 08:42, 2004 May 22 (UTC)

Categories, what's that?

I saw you added Kana to the Japanese language. What are categories? something new in 1.3? Is there a page describing them? Zeimusu 10:05, 2004 May 31 (UTC)

deletion of test pages

Thanks chris. Burgundavia 03:20, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

english language

sir, i would like to get an issue on the above named headline.

I have lots of issues all the time, but none related to above named headlines ;-) Chris 73 | Talk 23:53, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

tim hagans

sorry about that. let me fix that so it's in my own words.

Discussion style request

Dear Chris 73,

you are right. It's my habit from many years of participation in Fidonet discussing groups (there is standard to comment line by line).

I know that it is not best style for the Wikipedia, and I try to follow the rule like that you expressed, but often habit is stronger :-).

Thank you, I will pay more attention to this issue!

Drbug 22:15, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Learning project

Hi Chris, thanks for the help with the maps. Since you have english as a second language, I thought you might be interested in a project about learning I have started, up to now mainly for vocabulary? It is described and discussed on my user page. If you like please let me know there what you think about it. Get-back-world-respect 10:24, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks so much for digging up a pick of the Fremont Troll! It's twice the article it was. Appreciate it! :) jengod 01:51, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for Mount Katahdin!

I used Google image search, but didn't find that one. Thanks! --- hike395 01:57, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Minor edits

Hi, Chris 73. I've noticed you've done a few very small edits, like adding categories to Picture Tutorials and such. I'd appreciate it if you could mark these edits as minor (I don't know about you, but I consider them to be minor - LMK if there's a discussion I've missed out on). Although I'm sure you already know of it, there is an option in preferences that lets you mark edits as minor by default. - RealGrouchy 12:04, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi RealGrouchy. I thought minor edits are only fixing typos or so. In my view, adding a category is a borderline case. I sometimes mark it minor, sometimes not. For me, its one less click, which makes a difference when adding a category to a lot of articles. I also don't use the "minor by default". But thanks anyway for the notice. I usually check out changed articles on my watchlist regardless if minor or not. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 14:26, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I finally found the convention page for minor edits, and you are right that categories are a borderline case. I didn't realize that minor edit designation was so strict; I had thought that if you added a tidbit of new information, that was considered minor, but I was wrong. gl - RealGrouchy 02:19, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Like (preposition)

Look at Like (preposition). It is now greater than a dic-def and should be kept. 66.245.68.185 23:09, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Category:Japanese authors

You seem to be adding authors to Category:Japanese authors. (Great work!) However, when you add them there, if they have books translated to English, could you please also add them to the correct categories as listed in Category:Writers by genre, such as Category:Science fiction authors or Category:Fantasy writers. This would be especially helpful, since I can't tell if they need a category sort tag or not, because I don't know if their name has been reversed (for english) or is in the correct Japanese order. (IMHO it does not matter how the article is titled, but the sort key should be surname first either way.) Anything you can do there to help out would be appreciated. --ssd 04:05, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

National Progressive Party

What made you so certain, even without reading the relevant talk page, that you are right in deleting National Progressive Party ??? After a few minutes of beginning of the work! I was in work writing that. Since you made the deletion, please kindly compensate your hastiness, and your way in frustrating others´ work, by making a proper disambiguation page in that spot. hint: You find almost all necessary by checking "What links..." 213.243.157.114 16:44, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

My apologies if I deleted something that was not yet completed. However, at the time of deletion, the page was an empty page, and there was no content in the page, so I deleted it. The topic, however, seems to be valid and I would have no objections to the article. Please do not take my deletion as a sign of rejection, and I would be glad if you could write an article about the party. By the way, if you get a login (free, not even an email is required), it would me easier for me to talk to you on your talk page. Happy editing! -- Chris 73 | Talk 23:33, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I had created it a couple of minutes earlier. Having created it, I was busily collecting pages which linked there (creation was necessary for that, since I do not know how to map linked pages without actually having at least an empty page). I then created and wrote National Progressive Party of Finland, since there are at least three NPP-named parties around the world. I was making a disambiguation page, when my efforts went slushed down. I do not intend to repeat that work. I do not appreciate frustration - and I expect people who have frustrated, to make that work to amend their conduct. Your mistake was to delete a page that has existed only minutes at that time. Such has not happened, if you would follow something like "allow at least a couple of hours to others to make their work". PS I do not want to remember any more passwords and passdigits than I actually have to. I keep forgetting even some existing ones, as it is. Thus, I do not see significant enough reason to open an own account here - all the simple work I want to do, is doable already this way.[User:213.243.157.114|213.243.157.114]] 00:43, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The page had no content except for ' (see [4]) and a "speedy delete" listing, so I deleted it. I am very sorry if your work got lost. I know it is frustrating to loose work. I usually write a new article in a text file on my computer and then copy it to Wikipedia after i am done. To correct things, I wrote (recreated?) a disambiguity article for National Progressive Party. I hope this is what you had in mind. BTW, a what links here is also available for non-existing pages. Sorry for the trouble -- Chris 73 | Talk 04:33, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Image:White heath aster.jpg

Nice pic you uploaded, but it doesn't belong at Heath; I've moved it to Aster, to which it is applicable. I've copied some heath pics across from German wiki to Heath instead. - MPF 15:16, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Heath&Bog!

Thank you so much! {Skips off to re-read Wuthering Heights}

)

jengod 22:00, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

I just wanted to thank you for your support in my recent nomination to become an administrator. I really appreciate it. blankfaze | •• | •• 14:48, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Smiths Station

Is the name of the town Smiths, Alabama or Smiths station, Alabama? Both names seem to be used for the same ZIP code. -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:51, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The official name is Smiths Station, but it does appear as Smiths on several maps, etc. Legend has it that about 40 years ago, the postmaster at the time grew tired of writing Smiths Station, so he took it upon himself to drop "Station" from the name of the community. Smiths Station has tripled in population over the past 10-15 years and is a bedroom community of Columbus, GA/Phenix City, AL (distance approx 5 miles) and is located 13 miles from the county seat of Opelika. Smiths Station was officially incorporated in June, 2001 (the exact date escapes me but I can find out), and is Alabama's newest city to the best of my knowledge. Smiths Station High School has an enrollment of 1,600+ students and is the 10th largest high school in the state. Just stumbled across this site (insomnia lol)....it's really cool. Saw the discrepency and thought I'd see if it really worked. RCourson (you can also email me at RCourson@aol.com).

Thanks for the answer. I'll update the info on the page. Glad you like Wikipedia, but be careful - it's addictive ;-) Chris 73 | Talk 08:08, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requested pictures Art

Hi. You added a couple of items to Wikipedia:Requested pictures/Art with the comment I just can't get this to work. Anyone, just dump em on the sites and I'll do the rest. please. I am not sure what you mean. Do you want to copy photos from the site to Wikipedia? Please let me know, and I'll try to help you. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:16, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes. I tried uploading Jean II of France (Louvre image) and look at the result. I've been working up through Unused images (I'm up to 13 Aug 2002, so I have a way to go) finding homes for suitable good images and working them into the text to explain what's relevant about them. But I can't judge whether the copyright from the Louvre is okay at Wikipedia, and the techniques are a little over my head at present. It sounds lazy, but if you could dump the images onto the pages, I can work like hell and make them make a point! What say?Wetman 07:27, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The picture you uploaded had a size of 0 bytes. I went to the louvre site, found the photo (large format), right clicked on it to save it and then uploaded it at wikipedia. All was no problem. See Image:JeanIIdFrance.jpg and John II of France. Please check if the images you downloaded show correctly on your computer, so we can find out if the problem is the downloading from louvre or the uploading on wikipedia. -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:32, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC) BTW, i can't speak french, so it is difficult for me to find images on the site (all links are only to the top page) -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:35, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, now I've got it, with a little help at this end too. Thank you. I was neglecting to open the files and was shifting empty cartons! See Simon Vouet and Rococo! Thanks again! Wetman 21:42, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!

Well, thanks.

Japanese funeral pictures

Hi, Chris! I'm hoping you'll be able to help with the captions and image description pages of the fantastic pictures you contributed to Japanese funeral. Wikipedia:Captions offers some advice, and I have a few questions that might help you to understand this westerner's point of view:

• Image:JapaneseGraveyardTokyo.jpg: What are the boards sticking up behind the grave stones? What does one say?
• Image:JapaneseFuneralEnvelope.jpg: What does it say? (I'm guessing "our condolences on your loss".) Is there some special significance to the rope and colors?
• Image:JapaneseFuneralArrangementTokyo.jpg: What are the little boxes on the tables? Is there some significance to the circled picture of two mountains? Are all those things in the background flowers? Are there some other significant ceremonial items in the picture? Do all the attendees fit in the chairs between the tables or is there more seating for other guests?
• Image:JapaneseGravestoneWithRedInkName.jpg: Are there dates on this stone? I've seen names of living people engraved on stones in the U.S., and the way to know they're still alive is the absence of a death date. When the person dies, the body or ashes are interred there and the date engraved.

Thanks for the introduction to customs of some of my relatives! -- ke4roh 17:23, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I added some more comments on the image pages. However, I am not japanese and can't read japanese, so i couldn't answer all of your questions. Hope the little info helps. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 13:18, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I think I'll see if I can get other answers over here. -- ke4roh 17:59, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for Coconut crab

I love it! Thanks! Mark Richards 17:42, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Coconut crab

I have not encountered you before - and I do not normally simply leave a message to congratulate. But, within it's first day, the article Coconut crab is superb - congratulations. Keep up the great work. --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 19:29, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't Michael Jordan have a pic?

Obviously there are countless images of Jordan on the Internet and, indeed, most people worldwide know what he looks like. But he doesn't have a picture on Wikipedia. I would guess that it's hard to validate the copyrights of pictures of sports figures, and the list of sports pages on your "In the public domain" page doesn't include any page focused on American athletes. Wouldn't it be worth Wikipedia's money to get a subscription from a wire service that their users could use? Most publications I've seen or worked on, no matter how small, have subscriptions to the AP Wire Service. Salasks 23:26, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am not an expert in this, but i believe that a reasonable priced subscription from a wire service would give us only the right to show the image on our page. Yet Wikipedia wants public domain or GNU free documentation licensed images. To buy these PD or GFDL rights from a wire service would be a whole lot more expensive. I am guessing this may be from $100 upward per image. I'd rather have more servers. About Michael Jordan: Maybe we can show a book title (does he have a biography?), or maybe a fan has a private photo of him. Keep looking -- Chris 73 | Talk 23:45, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Aragon Flag

On Wikipedia:Requested pictures you wanted quite a number of flags. The one you fond for Aragón was too large you said. But using the thumbnail option [[image:test.jpg|thumb|test image]] you can easily resize it. In any case, I found you a flag on the spanish wikipedia article -- Chris 73 | Talk 04:33, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, already had discovered the option to reduce pictures. It only does not work well for some picture that lose all quality when reduced, e.g. when text is no longer readable. The link you provided is broken and does not have a picture.? Get-back-world-respect 11:05, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant (also and other foreign language wikis) -- Chris 73 | Talk 11:20, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, just saw it. Get-back-world-respect 11:23, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Finding images tutorial

Chris, this looks great. I'll try to add stuff when I get some free time. One thing that would be really helpful is a list of different government sources with their individual copyright status (and also the government page with that information). Recently there was a dispute on WP:FAC where the differences between the copyright status of an image from the florida government website (copyrighted) and the california government website (public domain) came into question. A full table of all government and state governments, with all necessary info, would be really helpful somewhere. I'll look around and see if I can get more state info. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:08, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

thanks!

Hey, thanks for the Johann Schein and Heinrich Scheidemann images! That was fast. Best wishes, Antandrus 04:55, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ahmedabad page

Hey thanks a lot for the pictures. thanks !!!!! ok the first pic thumb|left|historic section of Ahmedabad it is actually a "pol". it is kind of hard to define in english but these are homes in the cities. appartments but very congested... by todays standards. sometimes front door of a house in is one "pol" and the back door is in another "pol". thanks for the images again.... --kunjan1029 08:02, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi. Glad you liked the images. Actually, I don't know anything about the town, but it was listed on Wikipedia:Requested images. I just checked the foreign language links for Ahmedabad on Wikipedia and copied. Please feel free to improve the description. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:06, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

great menstrual diagram

I am impressed with your artistic abilities. You could make it absolutely perfect by correcting the spelling mistakes. Correct spelling is the following: luteinizing follicle maturing luteum ovulation. I will give you an ovation when fixed! Alteripse 03:57, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments and the spelling suggestion. I changed Image:MenstrualCycle.png and Image:MenstrualCycle.sxd. Please check if it is correct now. You said I will get an ovation when done. I hope you didn't mean ovulation ;-) Chris 73 | Talk 07:28, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) (note: Use CTRL-Reload to clear the browser cache in order to get the new image)

clap, clap, clap, clap, clap,clap, clap, clap, clap, clap (and I'm not referring to the std). nice job. Just out of curiosity, because I want to do some diagrams but have been putting off learning the system, how long did it take you to do that diagram? Alteripse 14:44, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the ovation. The drawing took me about 2 hours to make, mainly because my computer crashed 3 times. My approach: I found some copyrighted sources on the web, added those into an Openoffice.org drawing, and created my own images on top of them. Sort of paint-by-numbers, just with a computer, and some modifications. Image:HowToTieBowtie VersionA.png and Image:HowToTieBowtie VersionB.png were much more difficult. Give it a try, the software is free and pretty good. (Computer crashed because of windows, not because of OpenOffice) happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 14:53, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You also wrote "Matruing folicle". Nikola 08:07, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That should have been corrected on the last upload. Look at the image directly, and try CTRL-Reload. -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:12, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Image Tags

Could you remember to tag all your images? Look at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for a list. Thanks. Secretlondon 10:07, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for fixin gall the tags. I'll be more careful in the future. BTW, I claimed a stamp as fair use: Image:Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Musa al-Khwarizmi.jpg. Would you suggest another tag? If so, just edit the image, it's on my watchlist. Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 10:40, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That's no problem I'm on a blitz. I don't know how to tag the stamp as I don't know whether stamps in the Soviet Union were copyrighted - and if so who owns the copyright and what the usage is. I think fair use is the safest at the moment. Secretlondon 11:16, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Aldeism deletion

As the creator of Aldeism, and as the author of the most recent incarnation of the Aldeism Wikipedia listing (today, but since deleted by a sysop), I would like to elaborate on the reasons that Aldeism should be kept listed as a serious contribution to the knowledge database that is Wikipedia.

• 1) Aldeism exists.The fact of its existence should be reason enough for inclusion.
• 2) The Aldeism website has received as many one million visits since inception. This means that Aldeism has at least marginally influenced the lives of thousands of people.
• 3) Discussions of Aldeism are occuring in more forums all the time. The fact that discussion is occuring means that people will seek sources of further information. Wikipedia holds as a substantial part of its mission that it be seen as a source for references of this type.
• 4) Lastly, many of the critiques and calls for deletion seem to be motivated by agendas other than the accuracy or mission of Wikipedia. Specifically there seems to be strong undercurrents of religious antipathy to Aldeism by some of the most vocal critics.

SubStub

Hi Mike. I hope you take the substub related snickering on the village pump easy. We're just having fun, and no harm is intended. Personally, I don't see the need for a substub, but then I don't mind having one either. Thanks for your contributions -- Chris 73 | Talk 22:13, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Did I seem offended? I certainly am not offended. However, thanks a lot for the encouragement. -- Mike Storm 22:20, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

VfD

Thanks, Sam [Spade] 04:50, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Andrew Zito

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. About your comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Andrew Zito: Anybody who can use a computer is allowed to edit Wikipedia. This means we get the whole spectrum of individuals. Andrew Zito is one of the (personal opinion) weirder ones, and Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Andrew Zito is our way to deal with such very difficult users. Luckily, most disputes are solved in a more cooperative manner by discussing it on the talk pages. Overall, it works quite well, and in many controversial topics we were able to achieve a good compromise. You are very welcome to contribute to wikipedia. If you can make compromises then you shouldn't have any problems. BTW, you can sign your comments with ~~~~ like this Chris 73 | Talk 23:21, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Chris, just read the tutorial file. Wasn't quiet sure that to do with ~~~~. Sony-youth 13:07, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

photo Desenrascanço

Hi. Not sure what "image:Desenrascanço" you're looking for, but I found Image:Air conditioning fixing using desenrascanco.jpg and added it to the page. I put it on the very top, since it is such a nice image. Does this help? Let me know if you also have another image. Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 04:11, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC) (added to User talk:213.13.238.1660

I was looking for that photo :) Thanks!! (User:Toze)

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. Glad you got a login, this makes talking much easier. About the photo: Why did you upload Image:Air conditioning fixing using desenrascanco.jpg again as Image:Desenrascanco construcao civil.jpg with a foreign language (portugese?) text? Now we have the same photo twice. OR did you want to upload it to the portugese wikipedia ? Let me know if Image:Desenrascanco construcao civil.jpg is redundant, and I will delete it. Also, a few tips: If you type ~~~~, it will automatically be translated into a signature like this: "Chris 73 | Talk 22:39, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)". And, if you add images, it is usually helpful to include Wikipedia:Image copyright tags so others know about the copyright status of the image. In any case, Welcome again to wikipedia and happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 22:39, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Demonstrations

Thank you very much for the pictures. I really think that it is great to see what people can achieve if they act together. I have the impression that there are still not many pictures about the anti-segregation movements, but I am no expert in that area. Get-back-world-respect 13:39, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks again. You are so quick. How do you find all these pictures? Get-back-world-respect 23:15, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the pictures!

thanks a lot for the pictures again!!!! @ Indian independence movement

--kunjan1029 08:08, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Puffball mushroom image request

I noticed that you filled the request after noting that there was already another article with a slightly different name... Oops. I replied to your comment, but not sure what to do now. Should I move it to "fulfilled"? Can I just erase it entirely?? Thanks for your work. (by User:Randyoo)

Either way is fine. I like to keep my Done... on the list for a few days to stroke my ego, and then remove the fulfilled entry. (If i wouldn't do that, then half the page would have my name on it ;-) By the way, you can easily sign your comments by typing 4 tildes like this ~~~~, which will turn into a signature after you save the page (3 tildes for signature, 4 for signature&date) lke this: Chris 73 | Talk 23:17, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I just wanted to thank you for your comments and advice so far. I also wanted to let you know that I intended to fix the Puffball article right now... and found that you did it already! So thanks again for letting me know what I need to do differently. cheers, Randyoo 21:40, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Another thanks

Just wanted to thank you for adding a picture to Auditorium Building, Chicago. Architecture articles without pictures are, well... lacking. Isomorphic 02:15, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mug Shots Promote Racism

§ Cris --

§ First, I should apologize for any hide that I took off in my initial remarks on the images that you supplied to the article on race. The dubious nature of the images encouraged me to assume that they were produced by a certain user who has apparently gained a great deal of satisfaction by stirring up trouble. I understand now that you supplied them in good faith.

§ When I first saw those images I was immediately troubled and deeply offended by them. I had the definite impression that they were mug shots, but I couldn’t quite believe my eyes when I later checked them out and discovered that they were compiled from FBI sources. To my it seems deeply offensive to associate the image of criminals, or even people merely alleged to be criminals with any community, and it is particularly harmful to associate such images with any groups that have historically suffered from racist attacks.

§ Thusfar you have not justified your use of these images even by responding to the cogent objections of Slrubenstein. In fact, it must be impossible to do so because it is impossible to provide a photograph of something that does not exist. The word "race" does not have an operational definition. That word is very likely given a different definition by every single user of the term. The practical consequence is that any individual is likely to be categorized into different [races] by different people. There is no standard of truth under these circumstances.

§ The most that one can legitimately say is that the individual represented by photo A was put into [racial] category P by a sorter named Mrs. X. But that stands merely as an allegation. Was Mrs. X an accurate sorter? By what standards of category determination did she make the determination? Are there other sorters who would disagree that the individual in photo A fits the category P? Are there other sorters who would assign A to category Q? And, most importantly, if they are making their determinations on the basis of photographs all they really know about A is skin color, nose shape, eye shape, and maybe a few other superficial characteristics. That information is available to any seeing individual who happens upon the photograph. What other information, if any, is confidently provided once the categorization has been made? Do we know whether the individual can curl his/her tongue? Do we know the individual's IQ? What do we really know that we did not know before?

§ The whole problem with having an article on [race] is that it is just a word, a word with adherents but without any stable content. Any picture we use should illustrate this fundamental conceptual problem. P0M 04:32, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

§ Answers to your questions. First, I got into the habit of putting something at the beginning of every paragraph that I write just so that I will not violently attack something that I myself have said. ;-) (A year or so on the Race:talk page people would cut each other's remarks in the middle, add their comments, etc., and it was often impossible to tell who was saying what. I started by putting P0M: at the beginning of every paragraph. Lately I've been too lazy.

§ I still think the mug shots promote racism because they associate pictures of people who are definitely not at their best with certain [races]. (I use the square braces around a word when I don't accept it at face value, by the way.) Two of the women's pictures look like they might be ordinary snapshots, but every other picture shows body language that says "Something has gone drastically wrong," or "I definitely do not want to be here." The racist effect isn't cancelled by having a crook in each picture because people know thousands of people within their own group and will discount the member of their own group in the pix as "atypical," "not my kind of people," etc. A more extreme example would be to use the image of Adolf Hitler as that of "a typical German citizen," or to use an image of Joe McCarthy as that of "an average white guy." (If you ever get a chance to see old kinescopes of the Army-McCarthy hearings, check out McCarthy while Welch is cutting him apart. The body language is very telling.)

§ Nice pictures or not, you still haven't answered the basic objection that any picture you put up is just going to help cement the misconceptions on which the myth of race is founded. P0M 05:46, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WP:RFA

I'm very sorry! I hate page duplication. --Merovingian✍Talk 01:46, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

RE: Deletion of KFA

This is MORE than personal. It has to do with over 3000 people tracing their ancestry to the Kulm family. I wouldn't put it here if it wasn't important!

Historical significance: Kulm Catherine the Great Peter the Great German-Russian Russia Stalin Lenin Poland Bessarabia Russian Steppes

Thanks for MJ Pic

If you come across any other sports figures, post those too. Thanks again. Salasks 14:58, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Elements

Thanks for the great photos of the elements. I'd always wondered what uranium looked like, but I'm still not sure. Was that picture you uploaded of pure uranium, of uranium ore, or some intermediate form (yellowcake?). I hate to do this to you, but could you clarify? I'll be willing to go in and change the image descriptions and captions, but don't know what form the pics are in. Best, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 15:49, 2004 Aug 3 (UTC)

I got the image Image:UraniumUSGOV.jpg from [5], which just said Uranium. I uploaded most images in the list. Tomorrow I will go through the list and check for some images missing an article. I'll check out the Uranium, too. My guess is that it is a type of ore, since pure Uranium is supposed to be a silvery-white metal, not a yellow rock. Thanks for the comment. -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:54, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also, could you please avoid creating pages consisting of nothing but images? At least one sentence to start with, please. For example, someone who happens upon Tincalconite as the page is now has no way to know if it is a mineral, a coral, or a type of candy. Please say. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 15:54, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Totally agree with you. The pictures need articles. I will work through the list tomorrow again and create stubs for the images without text. Please be patient, and thanks for the comment -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:59, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Infrogmation 16:08, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

John Marshall Law School Journal Links

Yesterday, I posted some extra links to the John Marshall Law School page (as 24.12.241.49, now registered as larkas) with the goal that I would return to post an article about the school -- I am a law student and want to get the latest updated information on size, bar pasage, etc before posting the entire article.

At any rate, especially in law school, schools are heavily defined by the scholarly, law journals that their students produce. Both the John Marshall Reveiw of Intellectual Property and the John Masrhall Journal of Computer and Information Law are two such publications -- the John Marshall Law Review has no serious web presence. I posted links to them for people to be able to link to these publications and be able to read them. I really think the links should be restored and I would appreciate it if you would not delete them.(User:Larkas)

Hi Larkas. Thanks for your comment on my page about John Marshall Law School, and also thanks for getting a login. I removed the links, because both were to journal sites, and the article was about a school, so I thought them not necessary. But feel free to add them again, especially if you want to write a longer article about the school. Sorry if i stepped on yoru toes. Actually, I just added the links again (easy to do, since the entire edit history is stored). BTW, if you write on a talk page, you can easily sign your comments by typing 4 tildes like this ~~~~, which transforms into a signature and a date. Please let me know if you have any questions, and welcome to Wikipedia! Chris 73 | Talk 22:17, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I got a vandalized article, you didn't, muhaha!

Cheers for taking care of that idiot, Chris. That was my first "Stormie is a fag" article, although once before I irritated someone enough that they wrote something similar on my user page. :-) —Stormie 01:26, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

RE: Page Move

Hi Ryan. When you see page move vandalism, just move the page back using the move tab on the top. Do not cut/copy, as this looses the edit history. If you get an "page exists" error, ask an admin to delete the target page, and then you can move it. -- Chris 73 | Talk 01:11, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes if you look on my talk page i am aware of this i copy and pasted the first 2 times because i didn't know but the third time i used the move page.--Ryan B. (Talk, contributions) 01:28, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

(NOTE A Copy Of This Response Can Be Found On My User Talk Page)

Yes, sorry, i missed that. I also missed the comments by Guanaco, since I checked only the bottom of the talk page. Anyway, I blocked that user for page move vandalism for 24 hours. -- Chris 73 | Talk 02:21, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Numerical Prefixes articles

Check out the Greek numerical prefixes and Latin numerical prefixes articles. Any words you can add to any of the linked prefix articles from these pages?? 66.245.10.239 15:01, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

US Mint copyrights

Maybe I should have mentioned this on the image requests for the Franklin half dollar and the ten dollar bill. The US Mint appears to use images that are not works of the government, i.e. they're copyrighted by someone else. Here's their terms of use:

In addition to works of the U.S Government (as defined in 17 U.S.C. § 101), this site also contains matter covered by copyright licensed to the U.S. Mint and owned by third parties or assigned to and owned by the U.S. Mint. Additionally, this site contains individuals' names and likenesses, and trademarks and other intellectual property owned by the United States Mint or owned by third parties and licensed to the United States Mint. For example, "United States Mint," United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set," "United States Mint Proof Set," "50 State Quarters" and its graphic logos and "United States Mint H.I.P. Pocket Change," among others, are trademarks of the United States Mint. Also for example, copyrights in the Dollar Coin Obverse Design featuring Sacagawea, the "Mark My Words," "PuzzleMint," "Cents of Color," "Making Change," and "Coin Memory Machine" games, and the "Time Machine" have been assigned to and are owned by the United States Mint. Designs of the new quarter-dollar coins issued under the 50 State Quarters Program may be derivative works of designs covered by third-party copyrights licensed to or assigned to the U.S. Mint, or in some cases may be covered by third-party copyrights assigned to the Mint. You should not assume anything on this site is necessarily in the public domain. [6]

Just so you know. The images you posted are probably in the public domain but it's worth checking out. Rhobite 02:35, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I agree that the images are probably Public domain. Not sure who owns the images of the US currency, but it is probably the Government, and hence PD. At Wikipedia, copies of 2D work are assumed to have the same copyright as the original work, (e.g. a painiting by Rubens has expired copyrights even if it is a modern photo thereof) The arrangement of the bills and the labels are probably original work, but very minor. I think we can also claim {{fairuse}} if necessary. -- Chris 73 | Talk 02:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

element photos

Great work on finding those and adding them to the element articles! --mav 05:21, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)