Talk:Posh

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 May 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

American English

I don't think this word is used in most of the US. I didn't know it before I went to Britain and none of the Americans I know did either except the ones from Massachusettes.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.44.1.200 (talk) 20:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Etymology

I hear say it came from "P and O SHipping", proberbly aprochyphal, but worth a mention? Boffy b 00:44, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)

I heard it was an abbriviations for people attending bording school that didn't have a title, but still was rich. But I am fraid I don't remerber what it was abbriviation for.

WRONG - comes from Port Out, Starboard Home. This refers to wealthy people travelling to and from India and the side of the ship they stayed on to get the sun. User CALUM 6 Oct 2005.

Did you actually read the articles? The one on Fake etymology clearly states:

P.O.S.H. (for posh). Port Out, Starboard Home; port supposedly being the side of the ship (and starboard on the return journey) having the best cabins when sailing between the UK and India.

If you were to have solid evidence of your alleged insight I am sure the experts would like to know. So: sources please?

"The story goes that the more well-to-do passengers travelling to and from India used to have POSH written against their bookings, standing for 'Port Out, Starboard Home' (indicating the more desirable cabins, on the shady side of the ship). Unfortunately, this story did not make its appearance until the 1930s, when the term had been in use for some twenty years, and the word does not appear to have been recorded in the form 'P.O.S.H.', which would be expected if it had originated as an abbreviation. Despite exhaustive enquiries by the late Mr George Chowdharay-Best, researcher for the OED, including interviews with former travellers and inspection of shipping company documents, no supporting evidence has been found." OED --MJB 14:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the earliest mention on google books is a 1921 journal: "Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research", London:

"It is perhaps worth mentioning that "Posh" is P. & O. slang abbreviating "Port Out, Starboard Home," the coolest cabins occupied by the "best people". Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 15:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm that may be a red herring as the date may be the date of the society's foundation not the publication date? Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 15:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really have to wonder if people have lost their minds. Lack of evidence for the acronym prior to the 1920's is not even remotely "proof" that the acronym explanation is wrong. Often things that are common knowledge are not mentioned and not explained until long after thier origins have become obscured by the passage of time. In this case we seem to be dealing with a term that was not initially well known but more along the lines of insider information that probably took a long time to become common knowledge, like knowing what are the best rooms to get in a hotel. Indeed, one would expect explanatory evidence to be slim until a generation or two has passed. In any case it is plain science that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Further the absolute lack of any other even remotely likely explanation, and the quick and unconteseted acceptance of the acronym when the cruise lines were still a major form of international transportation suggests it is the likely origin of the word. As such I'm editing the etymology to reflect the fact that the acronym explanation may be correct, instead of the current assumption that it must be wrong.DHBoggs 01:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Glades21. I see you have just removed the "port out, starboard home" suggestion here. It's debunked by Mirriam-Webster, for example, here. I was wondering if it should be included, with sources, to show that it's a fiction? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, and sorry for the late reply. That info would fit nicely in a hypothetical article like "Posh (word)", but this is a disambiguation page, so we should focus on directing readers to proper content rather than adding info on this page that is meant for navigation. wikt:posh already explains the etymological theories quite well. Glades12 (talk) 22:04, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Money

The only evidenced definition of the word posh was 19th- and early 20th-century British slang for "money," specifically "a halfpenny, cash of small value." This word is borrowed from the Romany word påh, "half," which was used in combinations such as påhera, "halfpenny."

re Romani origin: the article 'Romani Language' mentions posh as a Romani word that has been borrowed by English. Perhaps a link or cross reference could be made (I don't know how to do it)142.68.51.163 15:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but that seems to be a different, earlier meaning where "posh" meant a small amount, not ostentatious wealth. Carlo (talk) 17:19, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opening line

I am no sure what "describes the somewhat over-the-top affectations of luxuries affected by those with social pretensions" means but it doesn't sound correct to me.--JK the unwise 14:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I must agree. I believe that the intro line is a jumble of unecessary euphemisms/politically correct terms. It definitely needs to be replaced. Stoa 06:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "half penny" definition is accurate in reference to small money as slang. In the Marine Industry it is widely known the acronym P.O.S.H. refers to Port out, Starboard home for wealthy passengers traveling from England to India. Understanding Port=Leftside of ship, and Starboard=rightside, a POSH cabin would allow a view of land when close enough. The term Starboard came from ongoing mispronunciation of "STEERINGBOARD". Many Large ships where built with steeringboard(tiller) on the righside because the leftside(port)would always be on the dock or the port. I trust this will assist JK in his/her wisdom, and add some credibility to wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.68.133.172 (talk) 05:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jersey connection?

Just came back from a trip to Jersey, and saw on various signs and notices "Parish Of St Hellier", often abbreviated to POSH - Just a thought... CarrPA 18:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possible but unlikely etymology - I'd be personally very interest in any further research you do on that, but it's clearly original research and thus not something we can put in the article --Estarriol ^talk 15:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reordering of article

I've added some basic section headers and changed the order of paragraphs around to suit the general reference better, of course this is from my sense of the word so the opinions of others would be very welcome. I think this article could do with some work, although there's good material here already... it's missing something, IMO, for a reader who had come here to learn the sense of the word. --Estarriol ^talk 15:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Spice Girls

What about Posh Spice? Shouldn't their be a mention of Victoria Beckham the of the Spice Girls?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.160.153 (talk) 18:13, 22 November 2006

A Wikipedia reader searching Posh Spice or "Posh Nosh" won't arrive at this page anyway. Clutter is noise. --Wetman 19:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I moved her around without coming to grips with this point. I don't believe my G-search result
about 1,360,000 for Posh -"Posh Spice" Victoria OR Beckham

is numerically correct -- i can't see how it could be, in light of

about 330,000 for Posh "Posh Spice" Victoria OR Beckham

and in light of other suggestions i've seen that Google does something weird when you try to insist on excluding the hits that use a word in the "wrong" context -- but the actual hits #1-10, 91-100, and 491-500 are all instances of mention her or him, and "Posh" meaning her outside the phrase "Posh Spice". So a VB entry on the accompanying Dab is not a case of mere Dab clutter.
--Jerzy•t 04:49, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Romani word?

The article is included in the Category:Romani loan words, but nothing is said in the article to suggest that this term actually comes from Romani--Al Bargit

See the additional paragraph and reference point to 1890s Dictionary that I added. This seems to be the Romani source point and also includes the 'dandy' definition. joeteller —Preceding comment was added at 18:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted

I have removed:

~ Posh and Naughty~ Posh and Naughty is a Unique Boutique located in the Quaker Hill Section of Portsmouth, RI It is an exciting place created and owned by Trisha Smith, a single mother who came up with the idea after fighting and winning an 18 month custody battle that nearly broke her confidence, one day she used that last grain of resilency in her heart, woke up feeling that it was the start of something new and went out and ambitiously secured the location of 2576 East Main Road with $10.00 in her pocket, entrepreneurial sprit and the resolve that she would succeed in this endeavor. You can visit www.poshandnaughty.com for more information.

From the football section. Metty 13:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.O.S.H. and views of land

During cruises from the UK to India and similar locals, "Port out, Starboard home" would refer to having a view of land (more interesting than a view of blank ocean, not the "shady" side (which would vary between morning and afternoon). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.67.242 (talk) 01:14, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, if you've ever been on a boat at sea, the above is not really true. In the Northern Hemisphere, having a south facing porthole would rapidly heat your cabin throughout the day whereas the north facing would stay cool throughout the day. Architects often design houses around this principle.

Do we have good arguments against the deletion of this page?

As far as I can see, this is not an encyclopaedia article. Posh is near universally understood as an adjective. The current assertion that it is "an element of fashion" would need to be strongly supported. I think that some of the content could probably go into the Wiktionary entry for "posh". However, I think the rest (for example the Peterborough United and Plain Old Semantic HTML content) either already is, or easily could be, incorporated into a relevant article. If you examine 75.74.156.42's edits, you will find that s/he has a point in objecting to the description of "posh" as an adjective. However, 75.74.156.42's removal of dictionary style content doesn't change the fact that there doesn't seem to be genuine encyclopaedic significance to this article. I also don't really see how this could be a useful redirect page, either. It could maybe be a disambiguation page for Victoria Beckham and Peterborough United but how useful would that be?

So do we have good reasons why this article needs to stay? 75.74.156.42 seems to be the user who has the strongest opinions about the value of posh as something other than an adjective, so if s/he could contribute and support the "element on fashion" claim with sources , we might be able to move toward building an encyclopaedic article, even if its only a stub. If we can't I will list this article in AfD and we can move on to the next stage of the process. Thanks in advance for your contributions. Howfar (talk) 01:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for notability

The deletion discussion seems to have reach the consensus that this article is notable because of the disputed etymology of the word. I want to get to some sort of consensus on remodelling this page to remove extraneous, non-encyclopedic, information and instead focussing on the origin, history, significance of the etymology and false etymologies of posh. I really favour, eventually, renaming this page to something like Etymology of 'posh', but I think that there is groundwork to be done before that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.203.158 (talk) 15:20, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested Etymology of "posh" at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Posh, but I have another idea I prefer. Since the most important thing about the word from an encyclopaedic point of view is the false etymology and its cultural significance, we could rewrite the Etymology section as an article on Port Out, Starboard Home, still explaining the uncertainty over the correct etymology although that wouldn't be the focus of the article. Then turn the "Other meanings" section of Posh into a disambiguation list (as suggested by User:Howfar at AFD), merging the details into Peterborough United F.C., etc., and including a "See also" link to Port Out, Starboard Home.

This would keep all the content under titles which are plausible search terms, and would avoid violating the "not a dictionary" policy even if that's interpreted as including etymological dictionaries. EALacey (talk) 08:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the absence of comment, I went ahead and carried this out, leaving a Wiktionary link at Posh for readers looking for a definition. The story of the Peterborough United F.C. nickname wasn't adequately sourced, so I decided against merging it into the club's article. I was surprised to see that Victoria Beckham seems to be the only topic correctly referred to as "Posh" (rather than "POSH" or "The Posh"); a purist might say that Posh should actually be a redirect to her article, but I think there's a clear enough common-sense case for keeping a page with links to the other topics. EALacey (talk) 21:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Purported origin

P.O.S.H.= for passenger vessels traveling to and from America or the Caribbean, debarking from either England or Europe in the Northern Hemisphere meant Port Out(left side of ship) and Starboard Home (right side of ship). Allowing the Higher $paying passengers (*usually with balconies or private suites) to observe the sunsets while on holiday or a voyage, in both directions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:244:5380:a340:157d:6606:2589:4531 (talk • contribs) 10:19, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is untrue, and has been comprehensively debunked in this article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:14, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]