Talk:Elliott Knob

Mountains Low‑importance

	Mountains portal This article is part of WikiProject Mountains, a project to systematically present information on mountains. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Contributing FAQ for more information), or visit the project page where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.MountainsWikipedia:WikiProject MountainsTemplate:WikiProject MountainsMountain articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Virginia Stub‑class Mid‑importance

	Virginia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia articles
Stub	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

What exactly is "within the Canadian climate zone" supposed to mean in this context, especially as far south as Virginia? RedWolf June 28, 2005 04:20 (UTC)

I can certainly change that...I read (somewhere) that the spruce stand on the summit is natural and is due to the altitude of the peak being just high enough to have a similar climate as that found in Canada, particularily north and east of New York...perhaps we can find a better term for this. I also know that areas to the west, which are even further from the moderating affects of the Atlantic Ocean, such as Spruce Knob West Virginia, and there they refer to it as the boreal forest...I think there the upper 4 or 5 hundred feet of the summit is covered in spruce...but that mountain is also 400 feet taller as well as farther inland. Any suggestions?--MONGO 28 June 2005 07:54 (UTC)

I take issue with the statement "Elliott Knob is the highest mountain in the northern half of the state of Virginia in the United States". Paddy Knob, the highpoint of Bath county, is 4477ft (14ft higher than Elliott). Also Little Ridge in Highland county is 4546ft, although it could be argued that it is not really a "mountain" but just a ridge connected to Elleber Knob, WV. Is anybody going to write a Paddy Knob page? 27 Jan 2006 22:17 (UTC)

It should read here that Elliott Knob is the highest mountain in the northern part of the state that is completely within the state of Virginia...doesn't Paddy Knob lie on the border with W.Virginia? Anyway, the wording is in need of correction. Feel free to write an article on Paddy Knob if you wish, I'm not familiar with it that much, but have heard of it.--MONGO 03:32, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also here [1] is a list of all mountains in the state of Virginia over 4,000 feet--MONGO 03:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, a list pulled from USGS GNIS name lookup. How quaint. The info in GNIS name lookup is woefully inaccurate, particularly with regard to elevations. Some common errors include 1) GNIS name lookup shows the highest spot elevation, which is lower than the highest contour (example: Mt Pleasant in Amherst county has a 4040' contour, while name lookup shows 4021') 2) GNIS name lookup has a lower spot elevation, when a much higher spot elevation shows on the map (example: Rocky Mountain in Rockbridge county, VA shows as 4072' on map but only 3642' in name lookup) 3) GNIS name lookup lists a mountain as being in two states, when in fact the summit is entirely in only one of them (example: Snowy Mountain summit is entirely in WV but shows up as also being in VA) 4) One mountain is listed multiple times (example: The Pinnacle and Point Lookout Mountain, elevation 4550, are one and the same). etc... Ivan Ash's list at [2] is much better, but still contains errors. I have exchanged emails with him, he is aware of the errors and plans a corrected version. BTW Paddy Knob is on the WV/VA border, but I don't see how that affects its status as the "highest mountain in the northern half of the state of Virginia in the United States". 05:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

"How quaint"? I didn't write the list just did a quick google to see if a list was handy, so complain to that webmaster, not me. I usually google a high point through peakbagger or summitpost, which also oftentimes provide links to topos that help delineate the altitude benchmark. Feel free to write an article on Paddy Knob if you so desire...and BTW, I did change the wording in this article. Perhaps Paddy Knob didn't pop up on the radar since it is shared by two states and not solely in just one of them. Elliott is a rather huge mass (by eastern standards) that looms SW of Staunton VA, and has a slightly higher altitude gain above any nearby valley than Paddy Knob, as the topos seem to indicate. The next closest taller peak to Elliott is Paddy Knob 27 miles away, whereby Paddy is not too distant (9 plus miles) from even higher peaks in W.Virginia which makes Elliott, in my opinion, more impressive. There is also differences in opinions on the actual altitude and range from 4,456 to 4,471..so I'm sure the same can be said for many paeks that have not been surveyed in many years with more modern equipment...most sources I see give Elliott an altitude of 4,463 and Paddy is 4,477.--MONGO 07:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scanning topozone, noticed several other places that are on the border of the two states that are higher than Elliott or Paddy, such as shown on the topos here: [3] and here [4]--MONGO 07:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While there are other places on the WV/VA border that are slightly higher than Paddy (as I mentioned before with the 4546pt in Highland county, called Little Ridge on peakbagger.com), those points have very little prominence, not enough to be considered separate mountains. To be more specific, Elliott Knob has 2423+ft topographic prominence (aka reascent), Paddy Knob has 1277+ft prominence (44th greatest in VA), Little Ridge has 396ft prominence, and the 4510pt has between 0-30ft prominence. To qualify as a separate "mountain", and not just a "top", a summit usually needs 500 to 1000 feet of prominence. Thus Paddy Knob is well over this threshold. One could make a case for Little Ridge as the "highest mountain in the northern half of Virginia", although it is more accurate to say that it's the "highest point in the northern half of Virginia", since Little Ridge doesn't even have 400ft of prominence. In fact I've hiked Elliott Knob (twice), Paddy Knob, Little Ridge, and nearby Elleber Knob in WV.

I see the difference...should I word it differently than it is now...something along the lines of "Paddy knob which lies along the West Virginia border at is higher at 4,477 feet, and several other ridge points along the state boundary are over 4,500 feet."? I was surprised to see, scanning the quads that there were ridgepoints that were quite signifiantly higher than Elliott, and I always thought that Reddish Knob was the primary contender to being an equal to Elliott, but it is less than 4,400 feet, It shows 4,397. I appreciate the assistance of this disambiguation and it has been an education. Also, I have been atop Elliott (3 times) and Reddish knob probably 5 times, but nver to Paddy Knob. As a young man I actually spent a night in the Fire Tower that used to be atop Reddish Knob, the tower is now gone however. Also, what is that large screen like apparatus atop Elliott and I think I remember a pond up there too...is it still there? If you know, I can always put that in this article.--MONGO 16:47, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My second ascent of Elliott was a few weeks ago, and the pond is still there. It was completely frozen, despite the recent warm weather. I have no idea what the screen is supposed to be. 10:48, 06 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for that, I'll get it into the article.--MONGO 02:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]