Talk:Staple food

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Staple (cooking)

Typical example of wiktionary term. Pfortuny 16:50, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• Merge with Staple food, redirect, and then list Staple food here. Anthony DiPierro 17:09, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. These are not staple foods and should be added to Staple food. They could be added as types of food to Food David Thrale 22:58, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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I am redirecting Staple (cooking) to this article, but without merging the text, as it was disputed. It went as follows:

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A staple is a common cooking substance. Some staples include:

• Flour
• Sugar
• Butter/Margarine
• Eggs
• Salt
• Baking soda
• Baking powder
• Vinegar
• Vegetable oil
• Yeast
• Cornmeal
• Rice
• Buckwheat
• Lard

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Please add Maize and Corn to this list of staple foods

I'm not an expert; however, Maize (the grain) and Sweet Corn (the vegetable) should be prominantly added as two staple food items on this page. With respect to corn you have corn starch, corn meal and corn syrup which are significant ingredients to many manufactured food products. In the USA, the UK and other places, the poorer folk grow corn in their cornfields and eat corn a lot more than rice, which is listed very prominantly here.;) --Ermeyers 01:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but I'd go further in reference to cuisines of Mexico and Central America where the combination of maize, rice and pulses is consumed daily-phreed100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phreed100 (talk • contribs) 17:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Ermeyers: In the UK, poor people don't grow corn in their cornfields - they don't have cornfields. There are not really any poor subsistence farmers in the UK - poor country people live off benefits the same as poor town people.81.129.22.210 (talk) 11:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Synopsis of major staple food

This table includes a wheat column, but the data appears to be for wheat germ. This same table has been copied into several articles (see my contribs for some others I tagged). I suggest that all the data be verified and then make the table into a separate page which can be transcluded into this and the other articles. Also, the section heading has an odd title. Sparkie82 (t•c) 00:30, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Charts

The charts are impossible to read (maps of the world of kilocalories/person/day) because the units are a non-SI unit of measurement only used in archaic systems. Please update the maps to use SI units, or both. Specifically, the units are not specific i.e. there are two types of calorie and they are not specified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.159.41 (talk) 13:35, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Misleading table

The table uses the data on which crops are grown the most, not which ones are eaten the most. Especially with crops like Maize which are turned into non-food products, I think this may be misleading. The issue of processed foods is another: do distilled beverages count as consumption of the grain they are produced from? how about processed foods created by separating and chemically altering the composition of the crop?

74.106.81.186 (talk) 09:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Sugarcane is the world's largest crop, purely by amount grown (by 2x to amount of corn grown). The table does not include it, in part for reason you mention. In case of corn, yes some 14% was converted to fuel alcohol - but rest went through directly or indirectly as food, and even at 85%, it still remains in the top 10 food staples of the world.

The data you seek would be a welcome addition - where every staple is broken down further: how much is directly eaten, how much as processed food (wheaties / flakes / syrup / etc), how much becomes fodder, how much into beverages, etc.? The difficulty is in finding a verifiable source per wiki's WP:RS guidelines that collects this data for the world. If you or someone can find such a source, please contribute. ApostleVonColorado (talk) 15:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Definition of staple foods

ApostleVonColorado removed, and I reverted the removal, the mention of fish as a staple food in some communities. The apparent justification was that fish is not a staple by definition, because staple foods are essentially energy sources, rather than protein etc. It certainly is true that most staples are high-energy plant materials such as grains and starchy roots, but this is rather a consequence of the fact that those are the commonest sources of food suitable for staple diets, especially in the poorer communities worldwide. Where the fish is what is available, it most certainly can be a staple. The term staple simply means main or major, as in a supporting pillar. Please discuss before reverting in turn.JonRichfield (talk) 18:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Here is European Union's standard definition of staple food: 'most commonly or regularly eaten food in a country or community and which forms the mainstay of the total calorie supply...'

Here is Food and Agriculture Organization/United Nations' has the same definition for staple food, with emphasis on 'energy/calorie' supply on a 'regular' basis. See page 21 of FAO's Dimensions of Need (ISBN: 92-5-103737-X, Editor: Tony Loftas, 1995).

If you have a reliable source that defines staple food merely as 'main or major' with no regards to its energy/calorie supply, then please do add it here. Perhaps, we can improve this article by clarifying the first para of the lead per the reliable source you cite.

Further, while we discuss whether fish is a staple food, I urge you to

• reword it from 'in some communities fishing is the primary source of nutrition' to something like 'in certain communities fish, meat, milk and eggs are staple foods.' Rephrasing to move the focus back to the subject of the article, which is staple foods, not fishing or human nutrition.
• add a citation per WP:V to include fish in the lead section. You or someone must cite a published source, per WP:RS guidelines, that states or identifies one or more communities in our world where fish is the staple food (or one of few). A claim or source that simply states 'fish is a major source of nutrients for community X' would be unacceptable as explained by WP:SYNTH guidelines.

ApostleVonColorado (talk) 19:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

There appear to be some points of confusion. I shall see what I can do about finding some of the detailed sources, but perhaps these off-the-cuff remarks will be useful in the mean time.

• most commonly or regularly eaten food in a country or community and which forms the mainstay of the total calorie supply... the fact that it forms the mainstay (which please note is about what "staple" means) does not mean that there is just one staple per community. Staples can vary by season and can comprise combinations of foodstuffs, such as beans and maize in parts of Central America. Not every roof rests on one pillar, nor does every mast depend on a single mainstay. So, either FAO's writers need a bit of assistance, or they intended more than you read into their wording. Your choice. You might argue that "most commonly" by definition implies uniqueness, but I trust that you can see that this would be semantically artificial and unhelpful.
• Calorific nutrients are implicitly and trivially a component of any staple food. Try a herring some day! The fact that they contain other components as well does not disqualify them from being staples.

More later, must run. JonRichfield (talk) 20:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Just to help you focus and avoid misunderstandings, neither EU/FAO nor I are suggesting there is just one staple food per community. Regular need not necessarily mean daily, regular can be periodic/seasonal.

Perhaps, our disagreement is on the term of art. These are two different statements: (1) Alcohol, tobacco and beverages are staples in the life of some consumers; (2) XYZ is a staple food in some communities.

Per WP:TALK guidelines, let us avoid a forum like discussion on this page. I await a verifiable WP:RS citation that supports 'fish is a staple food.'

ApostleVonColorado (talk) 20:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Back again, though still a bit hurried. Sorry.

About the "regular", "single" thing, good. This was something of a disagreement a few months back, and I am relieved to find we don't have to rake that one up again.

I am however embarrassed to admit that I cannot follow your statement: "Perhaps, our disagreement is on the term of art. These are two different statements: (1) Alcohol, tobacco and beverages are staples in the life of some consumers; (2) XYZ is a staple food in some communities." "art"? Do you mean "definition, sematics or the like"? And the usage: "Alcohol, tobacco and beverages are staples in the life..."? I cannot deny it if you suggest it, but what does it mean? In what sense does consumption of a non-essential product make it a staple in any way related to the idea of a nutritional mainstay, a "staff of life" if you like? I assume by "beverages" you mean luxury beverages, as opposed to essentials such as water? I cannot see luxuries as being relevant to the topic, whether related to calories, proteins, minerals or whatever you might suggest. Mind you, the way things are going, water might well soon be regarded as a staple.

Now then. To our muttons.

Before getting back onto the fishy business, let's address your example of "...in certain communities fish, meat, milk and eggs are staple foods...". I did not actually assert that at any point, and though in a sense perhaps looser than the definition you appear to be trying to impose, I would have no quarrel with such a remark. However I could not personally assert it in the case of eggs, though the idea is not intrinsically ridiculous. However, meat and dairy products most decidedly can be staples, and I mainly refrained from mentioning them because I expected difficulties in finding sound documentation. I assume that you might accept that some nomadic pastoralists and hunter-gathers might rely on such staples? However, if you insist on accepting nothing short of hard citations, I refer you to the WP article on the Maasai people (in the section on diet), and see whether you accept the references cited there. I have read of this diet elsewhere, which is why I found it so quickly in WP, but my previous sources were not backed up by quantitative studies, and this is not my field, hence my unassertive attitude in this connection. You will notice that blood is mentioned in the context of staple food, and that on average blood has a very low caloric value. As for urine, least said, soonest mended.

I had expected more difficulty in finding documented reference to fish as sources of staple food, but I was suitably chastened to discover that the very first page of a google books search ({https://www.google.co.za/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22staple+food%22+fish]} gave me ten specific hits, at least five of them citable, and some with FAO connections!

OK, where does that leave us? Over to you! JonRichfield (talk) 12:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• The word 'staple' may be used in different contexts. Consider these examples: (A) Fish is a staple in the diet of some communities; (B) Fish is a staple food in some communities; (C) [...], but in some communities fishing is the primary source of nutrition. Are (A) and (B) equivalent, in published reliable secondary sources? In my past due diligence, the answer was a qualified no. See for example, Barbara Santich's chapter on page 224, in the widely cited 1989 Staple Foods Symposium proceedings.

Example (C) is in the lead now (August 28 2012 version of this article). It is neither relevant to this article, nor is it cited. I urge we modify it at least to either A or B and include one of your citations.

Please note that the main article already includes meat, fish, egg, etc. (para 4, in Demographic profile section; I added these to this article about a year ago, to fairly include all sides). But should we include fish in the lead? if we do, should we not include meat, etc in the lead?

Per wiki's WP:LEAD guidelines, the lead should summarize the most important points of the article in proportion and notability in the article. I am not persuaded that the discussion about fish in the main article is significant to justify its inclusion in the lead. I urge that we expand the discussion about fish, along with meat etc, as a staple food in the main article to justify its inclusion in the lead. Given the disagreement between scholars, as explained by Barbara Santich's chapter above, citations should be included and text clarified that staple food may mean different things to different people, in different contexts. This would help enhance this article's balance and WP:NPOV.

I will read the books you cited, and check if they meet the wiki reliable and scholarship guidelines. In a cursory, quick read, I note that these books seem tertiary sources, not secondary, and they do refer to meat, eggs, milk etc. as staple food as well.

ApostleVonColorado (talk) 15:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

All that sounds generally reasonable. My reaction is: go ahead. I reckon that apart from the requirements of being reliable and encyclopaedic, the article should include enough breadth of material to give a proper balance; for example, even if the FAO flavour of the month is to call a food a staple only if it is primarily a source of calories for the graminivorous (I exaggerate, but you know what I mean) a reader should be presented with the more general concept as a matter of perspective, even if mainly historical perspective. Note the very common and spontaneous reference to fish as a staple, from various sources in various countries; if the FAO wish to apply the term in a narrower connection, that is all very well within their own publications, but WP is not limited to FAO conventions, and the FAO do not have any mandate for unilateral redefinition of the language from a single perspective. At the very least the article should include general English usage as well as FAOspeak. Some sources mention meat, some fish, and so on. It is not necessary for verifiability that they all be sources in peer-reviewed modern journals; historical demonstrations of common, supported observations and usage are adequate in proper context. If the modern situation concerning staples is mainly to address gigatonnages of grain and practically nothing but, then fine, but that should not exclude the responsibility for mentioning in proper context the usages at other times and other places. Whether to mention bloody milk in the lede is a totally different question, and not one that I necessarily would start a war on. I'll leave it in your hands for now, but shall keep it on my watchlist so that if you do want me to do some work on a separate section, or discussion on the matter, I'll be conveniently available. Ciao for now. JonRichfield (talk) 18:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

{{Reflist-talk}} added here for clarity (08:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)) (UTC)

References

Food vs foods

Will anyone who does not know the difference between the use of the word "food" as a mass noun and "foods" as referring to types of food, kindly stop changing the article. The altered text makes no sense in context. JonRichfield (talk) 20:58, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Nutritional Values are Not Valid; hyperlink not valid

Some of the staple foods identified are not correctly displaying accurate nutritional content. The data would be best verified using the USDA nutritional database. Yams as an example, show vitamin A at several times magnitude more concentrated than is possible in a 100g sample. The page should be taken down as this table is cited in multiple works and is false.

Starting point:

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3313?fg=&man=&lfacet=&count=&max=25&qlookup=yam&offset=&sort=&format=Abridged&reportfmt=other&rptfrm=&ndbno=&nutrient1=&nutrient2=&nutrient3=&subset=&totCount=&measureby=&_action_show=Apply+Changes&Qv=1&Q6301=1.0

Basic Report: 11601, Yam, raw — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.177.218 (talk) 20:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

To add to the above, the caloric values shown for the grains and potatoes appear to be per pound (454g?) not per 100g. I think that is the root cause of the errors here; some of these values are actually for 100g samples, others are per pound (and still labeled as 100g).

Bias in nutritional value?

I am concerned that the nutritional value of the foods in the table is misleading, because the nutrient levels are not adjusted for energy, making the grains look more nutritious than they actually are. In addition, some of the grain products are whole, while others are refined--it doesn't seem reasonable to compare white rice to whole wheat, when white and brown rice and whole and refined wheat are all staple foods. I believe that the above issues represent biases and I would correct them, but I don't know how to edit the table. I would appreciate any help. Alázhlis (talk) 03:18, 5 April 2014 (UTC) I've since made the changes to the table, which you can see in my sandbox. What do you think about posting it in this article? Alázhlis (talk) 02:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Other dominant vegetables

Tomato production in 2008 was 141 million tonnes. [1] Cabbages - 64.8 million tonnes. Cucumbers - 58.5 million tonnes. I guess the reason why they are not called staple food is because, even though they are consumed on a large scale, they are usually not a dominant portion of the diet and they are not so energy rich like starch-based food. However, considering the fact that their world production is so high, it would be nice to highlight them in the top ten staple food table. Also it would be nice to highlight the sugarcane, since it's production is so high, as someone else noticed it. Question: Is there a specific category of food that includes staple food and vegetables like tomato and cabbage? Something more narrow than "vegetables". Then a new table, including the mentioned vegetables might fit into the corresponding article. —  Ark25  (talk) 21:20, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Most of these "staple foods" are completely unknown for me. But tomato and cucumber missing from this list, even with their high production seems weird. Maybe this point could be addressed in the article in a different way? Because I indeed won't eat a huge pile of tomatoes with a side of chicken breast, but I could do it with potatoes or rice. 193.40.10.98 (talk) 13:41, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Animals?

This term can also apply to animals, for example (re: Sugar gliders):  "Each group defends a certain number of eucalyptus trees which provide the group with its staple food source." [2]

I considered adding what is essentially a truism to the lead (this term can apply to animals), but a cursory search didn't find a source to cite for the general case. Instead, I am posting here for comments or consensus.  —Eric:71.20.250.51 (talk) 08:24, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Sugar really a "staple food"?

The link with sugar in the lead seems not WP:RS.. Then only "sugar" happens to be in the table, mostly 15 g in Plantain. That may be a staple food somewhere, but then not as "sugar".

Googling "sugar Staple food" I found:

http://www.sweet-sugar-gliders.com/sugar-glider-food-dry-staple-food.html ..

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-staple-food-of-the-US ..

http://time.com/2812756/how-sugar-went-from-a-condiment-to-a-diet-staple/

"Sugar used to be a condiment, but now it’s a diet staple. Soda, juice, sweetened coconut water, sweetened teas, Frappuccinos—these are all desserts. Foods with added sugar are dessert if any form of sugar is one of the first three ingredients. Granola is dessert. Fruit-flavored yogurt is dessert. Chinese chicken salad is dessert. The American Heart Association limits kids to 4 teaspoons, and adults to 6-9 teaspoons, of added sugar per day. Yet a typical school breakfast consists of a bowl of Froot Loops and a glass of orange juice. That’s 11 teaspoons of added sugar!"

How many teaspoons make a "staple"? Is the doctor really just saying too much?

Non-RS source FAO? doesn't even list sugar (for North America in any form or elsewhere except "sugar cane" but not in bold) and: "throughout the world, complementary foods play an essential role in meeting nutrient requirements. They include protein sources - meat, poultry, fish, legumes and milk products; energy sources - fats, oils and sugars" comp.arch (talk) 15:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Broken citation link; page has moved and I can't find it

The lead section cites [3] as a reference for the claim that some fruits are staples, but this page appears to have moved. I've just reverted a (good-faith) edit that broke this reference, and I believe that editor was attempting to fix the link, but I don't have enough information to find the desired page by googling or looking at the page history. Should the link be changed to point to the internet archive? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jake-low (talk • contribs) 12:01, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Update: I found the page (looked in the wayback machine for where the dead link used to point; it's now located at [4]. The page doesn't appear to support the claim that was made, nor does any previous version of it that I viewed, so I'm removing the citation and replacing it with a citation needed tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jake-low (talk • contribs) 12:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Sweet potato vitamin A

I think there is a mistake in the nutrition table where the sweet potato's vitamin A content is 14,187 IU when the RDA is 5,000 IU. The wiki article of the sweet potato does not indicate that its vitamin A content is 3 times the RDA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtanti (talk • contribs) 11:33, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I just fixed it. User:Kokopelli7309 — Preceding undated comment added 22:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

86.7t/ha/a of sorghum in the US?

The article commercial sorghum says: “The national annual average yield in world's largest-producing country, the US, was 4.5 tonnes per hectare”. --Chricho ∀ (talk) 11:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, the listed figure seems grossly wrong and the reference given appears to be broken. In addition to the quote from the article commercial sorghum, a Google search gives figures of 200 bushels per acre for individuals who have won yield competitions, this comes to around 12t/ha, far less than the figure which purports to be the country's average yield. In addition, that same article has a graphic from USDA which reports that 5,260,000 acres were planted in 2019. Given a total crop of around 12Mt, this gives a figure of 2.28 tons per acre or 5.6t/ha. I'm going to go ahead and edit the figure in the table to 4.5, especially as the current figure gives the impression that sorghum is the most productive crop per unit land area in the world which seems far from accurate. Jeff8765 (talk) 09:35, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Staple crop comparison table

Please see Template_talk:Comparison_of_major_staple_foods#Fresh/dry_comparisons regarding a proposed change to the template transcluded in this article. SmartSE (talk) 12:14, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Staple food

Very staply food 💀 82.132.233.144 (talk) 09:17, 6 December 2021 (UTC)