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Societas Via Romana was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was to delete.

Non-notable semi-fictitious internet-based micronation club. Article created by editor who apparently has an axe to grind concerning another similar group and whose only other contributions involve vandalism of parts of the Micronation article that relate to the competing group. --Gene_poole 02:18, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC) [moved from mainpage]

  • Keep. Neither obviously better nor worse than the other micronation articles, which have repeatedly survived VfDing. The problem here seems to be that Gene_poole and Belgsoc seem to have it in for each other and are VfDing each other's clubs. Maybe what is really needed is Wikipedia:Dispute resolution? Securiger 06:54, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Belgsoc is not the only one with a dispute over Gene's actions; I also do not feel that Gene acts in a reasonable manner. Samboy 06:59, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Looks like self-promotion to me. Samboy 07:02, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
    • Oh, I agree. If I was Emperor of Wikipedia, internet micronations would be one of several classes of articles we would manage without. But we are a cooperative community, and the community seems to want them to survive. That being the case, I don't see this one as any worse than the others. OTOH, if the vote was to delete all internet micronation articles I would vote for deletion. Securiger 07:41, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Another small, completely non-notable hobby club/website/discussion group. --Robert Merkel 07:23, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not notable, even by micronation "standards". -Sean Curtin 07:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • I don't believe that claiming 'micronation' status makes you notable (so don't think describing micronation aims are going to impress me), or that getting articles in newspapers written about you are (I've read enough newspaper articles about complete oddballs and silly stories to not rate this as a measure of importance). Claimed membership numbers when you don't charge a membership fee aren't going to impress either. What this society would need to persuade me is a significant number of members, or a significant profile in the community (re-enactments, educational work, regular film extra work, etc). It might be my laziness or an unclear layout of their webpage, but on a quick look I didn't see anything that describes such real world activities. So, if it is in practice no more than an online talking shop, delete. Average Earthman 12:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: As said above, micronations survive VfD over and over. Well, the only thing that I think I can offer is consistency. I keep, as much as possible, criteria that do not change with my feelings. I feel that real life always takes precedence over fiction, that the smallest town in our infamous geography dump is superior to the largest website. Micronations, to me, have notability that is extremely difficult to establish, almost impossible to verify. I have no feelings whatsoever on the worthiness of this micronation vs. that, no judgment on whether they are as notable as they are loved. To the degree that a micronation establishes notability in an empirical way, I can vote to keep. In this case, I cannot get that notability and must vote delete. Geogre 13:04, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Nonnotable. Wile E. Heresiarch 14:27, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. --Ianb 17:19, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Wholly agree w/ Geogre. Delete. Lacrimosus 02:34, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non-notable. Non-encyclopedic. Seems like an advertisement. Skyler 03:42, Aug 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. I have visited the website of this group a few times. They are not a bad bunch, and they at least do not presume to be a micronation. {Poole's description of them as a "micronation club" is inaccurate in this respect. The article here flat out denies micronation status}. Still, I have to agree this club is not notable and it's small size and lack of achivements {beyond being a pleasant place for Roman buffs to associate} make it inappropriate for a reference encyclopedia. Stuart Smith 12:53, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
They can deny being a micronation all they like - but the facts - and their own actions - speak for themselves. This internet-based entity was created by a group of disgruntled former members of the Nova Roma micronation, with the specific intention of setting themselves up in opposition to the former group. The editor who created this article has also attempted to delete references to Nova Roma in the Micronation article, and replace it with references to Societas Via Romana - which would appear to be rather odd behaviour for a group that claims to not be a micronation. --Gene_poole 00:09, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
As an aside, "Gene Poole" is really George Cruickshank, "Emperor" of Atlantium. Samboy 00:32, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Samboy is a crank who has repeatedly posted irrelevent off-topic statements as a way of attempting to villify another editor. Admins please note this latest example. --Gene_poole 00:55, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Gene_poole flat out lies. I (Captain_Q) did not attempt to replace references to Nova Roma with Societas Via Romana (edit: I see this inaccuracy has been corrected now). Like some other users here say, the matter appears to be revolving around tricking people into believing your POV rather than the actual facts. I find this very petty...
Let's see...on the micronation discussion page, you argue that Nova Roma is a micronation and will continue to refer to it as such because that is what the Nova Roma webpage says it is. Ok. But when SVR denies being a micronation, you ignore that and insist it must be. I see. The real criterion here is Gene Poole's POV! If Gene Poole says something is a micronation, then it is. And if he says something is not a micronation, then it is not.

And according to the edit page, Belgsoc did not even create the article! You know what I think Gene? I think you would have ignored this Societas Via Romana article were it not for Belgsoc tamp ering with your beloved

micronation article. Belgsoc is as strong in his or her opinion as you are in yours, and that is a terrible distraction for you. In the end, when you saw that Belgsoc did an edit on this article, you decided to have some personal revenge and put it up for deletion. But you did not count on Belgsoc putting your Atlantium article up for VfD, did you? Isn't this whole matter rather petty? Stuart Smith 01:26, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You know what I think? I would not have even known about the Societas Via Romana article if Belgsoc - an editor who has been around for 1 entire week, and contributed to 2 entire articles -(and who has been strangely inactive since then) had not attempted to repeatedly interpolate it into the Micronation article - which, I repeat, indicates in no uncertain terms the nature of Societas Via Romana - ie that it is a web-based micronation. As it was therefore non-notable, I nominated it for deletion in exactly the same way that I have done for articles on numerous other unverifiable, non-notable web-based micronations. In a fit of pique, Belgsoc then listed Empire of Atlantium for deletion. That attempt will fail this time, just like it failed the previous 2 times it was tried - and Belgsoc, like all other Wiki self-promoters, will (indeed, already has) disappeared from whence he/she came. --Gene_poole 02:22, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • Delete. I don't care if it calls itself a "micronation" or a blog if it's nonnotable. Postdlf 05:09, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Fire Star 16:09, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, for a multitude of reasons already presented. Denni☯ 01:53, 2004 Aug 13 (UTC)
  • Keep. Captain_Q Obviously you won't find me very objective because I created the article, but in my defence, I would like to point out the following facts: the Societas Via Romana is a serious organisation and is not a micronation. The one who put it up for deletion purely seems to have purely done so out of spite. Secondly, it is not the only article I have written or contributed to, so, I can't be accused of using it as self-promotion... Please don't be too dismissive in your scepticism, people. I wonder if some of you even bothered to read the page at all...
  • Delete, not notable, let emperors Gene Poole and Belgsoc go and fight it out elsewhere. —Stormie 02:14, Aug 14, 2004 (UTC)
But neither user is associated with that org! Captain_Q 11:37, Aug 14, 2004 (CET)
Gene Poole listed it on VFD, Belgsoc removed the VFD listing, I don't really care if they're officially associated with your society or not. —Stormie 06:46, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep I previously voted for deletion, but I am changing my vote. I think Stormie is right and this whole affair is a personal quarrel between Cruickshank and Belgsoc. And it is not fair that the SVR gets its article deleted because of being in the crossfire. When I see some of the really insignicant stuff that is allowed to stay in Wikipedia, SVR looks a bit more noteworthy. {eg. I like the Beatles...but Hey Jude is NOT and NEVER will be encyclopedia material. So, even though my vote change will not be enough to help keep this article from deletion, I will change since they ought to have someone on their side. Stuart Smith 16:51, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. --Dittaeva 20:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete yet another vanity article on a micronation based on ancient Rome. -- Cyrius|✎ 03:28, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
It is not a micronation. Uh. Captain_Q 11:57, Aug 16, 2004 (CET)
  • How did I miss this one? Delete. Ambi 10:06, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. - UtherSRG 20:32, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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